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EYE-BALL Opinion – The Jewish v Arab problem – A naive perspective –

November 24, 2012
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Title:
– The Jewish v Arab problem –
– A naive perspective –
| Author: EYE-BALL Opinion | 24th Nov 2012 |
To the naive the senseless genocide, the bombings,  the hatred, the politicking, the view from the outside world where they think – ‘over there who cares’ … they all add up to the diminished concerns normal people have for the ongoing conflict between Jews and Arabs.  It’s a conflict that has no context in an advanced and educated world.

I pose a few questions –

  1. How many Nations were formed based on religion?
  2. How many Nations place religion before the interests and advancement of the people?
  3. How many believe history’s version of how religion became a part of the global society?

They’re simple type questions, but they form the basis for a debate about how religious belief has been responsible for conflicts over many thousands of years.

I can count just three Nations formed and based on a Religion faith – Israel – formed out of the WWII persecution of the European jewish population, and Pakistan formed out of the separation of India into muslim and hindu states.

Most of the arab world were already formed Nations well before the post WWII formation of a Jewish Israel, and a muslim Pakistan.

In answer to question 2 – the answer is all the Muslim Nations, and the Jews. i.e. Indonesia, the Arab States, and Israel.

The most populous Nations, China, Russia, The Americas, Europeans, many with Roman Catholic origins do not place religious beliefs above the State … hence the separation of Church and State statutes in their constitutions.

You look at a global map and take in from Pakistan, Iran, to Syria, to the Nth African Muslim Nations, Indonesia, they are all generally dictated by a religious belief ahead of State affairs. It is changing in some Nations, but the hard-liners still have sway in places like Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt, western ways are shunned, where moderate Nations have allowed progression on human rights issues.

In answer to question 3 – well that is a question for each of us to answer dependent on our education and history lessons.

If you take religion out of the conflict between the Jews and Arabs, would there still be a conflict?  Is the solution connected with diminishing religious beliefs, or would the conflict of hatred born from generational revenge continue?

To Westerner’s the stupidity of lobbing bombs across borders, either by uncontrolled rockets, or from precise war planes, it is all about the resultant deaths of innocents.  The respect both sides have toward human life is unfathomable in the modern world.  Women and children are dying and all the Leaders can think about is escalating the conflict to kill more of the other side.

Surely an appropriate response would be for the rest of the world to admonish both sides – yet America, and much of he Western world support Israel unconditionally in the conflict and there begins the problem.

I read a story recently – linked here – that made sense … logical sense.

A story is titled: “CIA Document Declared Israel Founded Upon Terrorism” – and the passage referred to is copied below:

… Germans ethnically cleanse innocent Jews and claim they are a threat to the government and German society.

Now Israelis ethnically cleanse Palestinians and claim they are a threat to society.

What a weird, disgustingly shocking affront to what normal human behavior and societies entail! I do not know what to make of such hypocrisy, inhumanity, and stupidity but to feel sorrow for Israelis.

It is clearly a result of what happens when a government indoctrinates its people with HATE!

… read more …

The comment resonated – it gave some clarity about the conflict and allowed a review of opinions that were based on 1960 history lessons, and modern day reading when the arab, jewish conflicts escalated.

Trying to understand what Arab’s and Israeli’s feel toward one another becomes a perspective in arrogance and stupidity. These populations don’t respect the rights of each other, and for the rest of the world to have respect for either side – the opinion comes down to our own religious beliefs. Is there not such irony in that conundrum?

I accept the holocaust, I accept the efforts to create the Jewish state, but the continued cost in innocent human life terms that allow both these mandated religious and fanatical Governments to keep warring with one another – is grossly unacceptable.

Arming both sides is a West verses East contest … and that is a recipe for a disaster the West has experience with when wars between Iraq and Iran, Iraq and the West, Afghanistan and the West, are all considered in human life and financial terms.

Yes it is disgraceful to measure human life and financial costs in the same context.   Just about as respectful for the feelings the Arabs and Jews have for one another.

This conflict is spreading with Jews among the most assimilated people around the globe.   The muslims are also becoming integrated and Western Governments have open their borders for this migration out of the racist position card being played if they close their borders to either race.

This is an underbelly problem with societies and it will not be long before the hatred these two races have for one another infects our own society.

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  1. barry
    November 25, 2012 at 6:24 am

    Religion is nothing more than a means concocted to control the masses.

    Throughout history, religion has been used to incite the masses to war against each other , by the people with money and power.

    Just as the Arabs are doing now that they have achieved wealth status, and desire to inflict their power throughout the world.Using the muslim religion as a guise to promote their agenda.

    It’s simple really , all you need to do is find a few narcisist fools , promote them positions of status , (eg Prime Minister) , give them the tools ( eg the muslims), and sit back waiting for it all to happen .

    All you have to do is infiltrate the minds of people , back it with a bit of money , and you can do whatever you like .

    Plenty of dumb ones around.

  2. david the pragmatist
    November 25, 2012 at 10:54 am

    Man makes religion, it has since the beginning of history. In a perfect world there is no need for religion, it is the imperfect world that man creates that demands it.

    Without advocating or denigrating any religion the meaning of “faith” is the reason that religion exists. Do not tell me that “most” people who have experienced a personal tragedy or are completely exasperated as to what to do, have not called on a greater power to help them.

    It is for this reason that the human mind is fertile to develop religion, how it is compiled and evolved is another complex issue. The Jewish Arab argument is no different from the Hatfields and McCoys who feuded for 3 generations in 19th century America. The middle eastern Jews and Arabs have the same father figure in Abraham, Mohammed wanted to be a Christian but was rejected by the fundamentalist style of Christianity that existed in that time (what has changed you may ask). You do not have to be a genius to figure Jehovah and Allah are the same “god” that Jesus and Mohammed were evangelists to. The rules that man then applies and interpets are what buggers up religion and I think that is where Barry and the Author become confused. Neither Jesus or Mohammed advocated the issues that the current protanganists would have you doing in their respective names.

    I personally am of a Buddist /Christian philosophy and I do not believe any particular doctrine or man made interpretation of any religion other than the “Golden Rule” of “do unto others as you would have done unto you” (masochists aside). I also choose to believe in “spiritism” which implies reincarnation and a gradual improvement in my ability to be human through each life I live. It takes many reincarnations to evolve to a stage of being a pure spirit, on what I feel I am less than half way! It is through the errors of my ways that I believe I learn and advance. When you think of mankind this makes more sense than the alternatives of a “burn in hell retribution religion” which we are constantly exposed to.

    I am sure many people reading this would say I am “daft”, personally I don’t know if my views are right or wrong,” I choose to believe because I need to believe in something, I am not sure what sort of person or future you may have if you believe in nothing! I stress “I choose to believe”. Not that I am right and you are wrong!, but don’t worry under my system you are still learning and you will not be punished for being wrong, being wrong is human……welcome to the race.

  3. November 25, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    You Daft wanker … you asked for it …

    As always you miss the point of the comment … has nothing to do with Buddhism, Christian or Spiritist beliefs … it was about Nations being formed under a religious mandate as opposed to a Nation where free speech and expression is accepted.

    If it is a simple feud scenario as you suggest – i.e. Hatfield’s and McCoy’s … then it is much easier to accept the lack of respect from each side … but when you go off on your ‘fairy floss’ sweetness about faith and your own beliefs you contradict yourself.

    Perhaps you need something to believe in because you’re a flawed person with demons needing forgiveness … i.e. Gillard has no religious belief – is that a cause or a reason why she can lie and deceive the Australian public over her involvement in the AWU scandal – and as that scenario might relate to you – Gillard’s atheism and her deeds as matched by your search for Spiritism, is as Gillard’s criminal past causes her no conscious issues, yet your search is about you wanting for forgiveness and to be thought of as a good person.

    Your need to have spiritism and something to believe in is a part of a bigger issue … self-doubt maybe, over inflated ego wanting a sub conscious to answer to, or maybe a stronger response to challenging emotive issues … anyway what is in your head is in your head …

    So you ‘daft’ wanker – in simple terms humans deal with one another based on their respect for one another … or at least that is my take …

    Whether that respect is held because of religious belief and the difference as you spell out – then when is it time to tell these idiots that respect for life is more important than death caused out of a hatred based on a religious parable some 2000 years old….

    Perhaps some self-awareness catharsis about their own deeds might remind them that they are a part of a global community, particularly when they rely on it for their arms and their food …

  4. david the pragmatist
    November 25, 2012 at 8:46 pm

    So much for my problems. I am obviously not in your league!

    I think that anyone objectively mature would see the comparative difference in the opinion I choose to believe as against the opinion you choose not to have. This said it is not for you to judge because of your obvious lack of historical knowledge as it is for you to become more aware of the polarisation you afford when making comparisons of people in a generalised manner.
    As I said there is no right or wrong as we continue to learn and you being much smarter than me leaves me no alternative but to learn more. Remember that every positive has a negative and vice versa. It is on this basis that I move forward (positively) and you choose to continue in your negative field.
    Good luck! (in the next life).

  5. November 25, 2012 at 8:59 pm

    This is not personal – yet it’s where you go every time –

    It is about a judgement on the religious hatred between Jews and Arabs … how smart do you have to be before you can understand the horrow of war and death … yet both sides posture and willingly shoot first regardless of civilian casulaties … it is madness and in that opinion … I ask why shoud the rest of the world hold any respect for either side …

    The Jews may feel threatened by the number of arabs living around them … and tehir posturing with Nuclear arms is their defence … do you trust the leadership of eitehr side with that type of weaponary …

  6. david the pragmatist
    November 26, 2012 at 8:28 am

    There’s nothing personal in the issue. The points raised were based on religious hatred, wether that is from a cultural or racist view is not the point I was making. Ie Barry made the point of religion being the cause, I think the religion is man made so the cause has to come before this. This said I accept uneqivocably that religion is a common demoninator in most of the worlds problems. Just remember though that the USSR in all their glory and China in its current mode are not driven(directly) by religious beliefs. Those two regimes are hardly examples of human rights and arguably are no different in terms of barbaric acts than past examples.
    Don’t get me wrong though, religion has plenty to answer for and again I suggest that the 2 main religions led by Jesus and Mohammed would be horrified at the things that have happened and are happening in their names.
    Be careful you do not throw out the baby with the bath water!!

    PS After coming up with all the reasons why my belief sysytem is wrong from my inadequacies to my phsycie you never cease to amaze me that “I” made it personal ! are you blind to what you write?

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